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tv   Cuomo Prime Time  CNN  April 11, 2019 8:15pm-9:00pm PDT

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>> now, if you can get past, errol, the obvious dehumanizing aspect of this, that you're using them basically as chits, there is a little bit of an evil genius at work here. you take the people that you can't hold, right, which is part of the problem. really, they just should be expanding their potential to accommodate, and then you dump them in the cities where you want to show that there is a problem with too many people, and then you can go back and round them up and blame the city and hope that the overflow in the city hurts your opponents. >> yeah, it's twisted. it's a good thing they didn't try to implement this, chris, honestly. even if they had even a glimmer of good faith about it, if they were to propose this either on the board otherer in towns that they don't like for obvious malicious political reasons, if it came with some money, there are any number of jurisdictions that would probably take them up on it. if you actually want to solve the problem, you get an entirely different approach to all of, this and it would probably save
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a lot of money too and a loft heartache. but that doesn't seem to be what the agenda of this white house is when it comes to this particular question. >> making a couple of quick calls, frank, the sell on it was from the white house's side, the president's side of espousing this, lahey, look, you guys say you want them in the sanctuary cities, here you are. >> and lo and behold, we find out stephen miller was a big person behind promoting this. one is a measure of how frustrated president trump is about the border and immigration, how he has been unable to deliver on any of the promises he made when he was campaigning. i'm also just fascinated by how many examples we have now, especially with immigration, but with other things too. a federal agencies and departments saying to the white house, saying to president trump, that is beyond the pale, and you just can't do that. thank god that's happening, but it really tells you how far president trump and the white house officials around him are willing to push things, and how really morally grotesque they're willing to be at times.
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>> lopez, to push back on the idea that oh, the president never said that he wanted to separate people, he never said he liked that message of harshness, but he liked this, right? >> right. >> you know what i'm saying? it's completely hand in glove in terms of what i call on the show the brown menace. that's the way the president wants to cast people who are coming to this country south of the border. they're the murderers, the bad. they're coming here to hurt you. that's why he can't show you the faces of the kids, lopez. if he shows you the faces of the kids and the families, he can't say look at this poor kid, build a wall. it doesn't work. he has to use the scary once. >> yeah, he's done this since day one when he launch his campaign for 2016, saying that the mexicans coming across the border were rapists and criminals. so this isn't new with president trump. this is something that he tried to do again in the lead-up to 2018. it was all about immigration for him, even though republicans wanted to kind of steer away from that, because they knew down on the ground everyone was concerned about health care.
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and, again, he pushed this, even putting out what was considered a widely racist ad in the days leading up to the election, and it didn't work in 2018. democrats flipped the house. >> now here what's i don't get, errol, where are the democrats on this? i see nothing but opportunity. only a few of them have even gone down to the border to check out what's going on. why aren't they seizing advantage here and saying we'll fix this. we're going help. we're going bang on the president to use his emergency declaration to help provide these resources for cbp. we're going to do our own thing. why aren't they even talking about this? >> well, it would be nice, actually. but i think there is a broader conversation. you are starting to hear some of it. i heard it tonight, chris, many the form of julian castro talking about a marshall plan for central america and latin america. the problem has to be dealt with in the right way, in the right place with the right resources. right now we don't even have -- we don't have an ambassador to honduras, which is sending so many of the people here.
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we don't have a nominee to be the next ambassador to honduras. that is negligent. that is shameful negligence. if the democrats want to be serious, they should propose and develop sort of a comprehensive plan to deal with the factors that have led to so much of the instability. in central america and talk about an aid plan, maybe even whip together an aid plan, try to push it through congress, try and actually address the problem. i mean more grandstanding at the border, yeah, i guess it could work. >> i'm not just grandstanding, frank, i'm talking about micro. you went down there. what is it, compassion fatigue? 2014, we all ran down there with the unaccompanied minors. the first wave of the separation of kids, the democrats all ran down there. what, does some polling show them that this isn't a winning issue for them? >> i think they're worried about this. i think they're not sure what the politics about this issue is going to be and how that's going to play out. i think that's why you hear them talking about it with much less specificsy and frequency,
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medicare for all, the green new deal, that sort of thing. i think that's going have to change between now and 2020 because president trump is going to talk about it and talk about it and talk about it, and just kind of not responding or responding with generalities is not going to cut it for democrats, as we get closer and closer to november 2020. >> and there is space. we'll see. if it's mcaleenan who winds up being the dhs secretary, and it looks like it will be, the current commissioner of cbp, he knows you're not away from a fence away from a fix on this? physical barriers help with certain types of deterrents and funneling and allowing them to apportion resources differently, but he is all about his manpower, the judges, the caseworkers, the accommodations. there are so many ideas this president ignores because they're not part of the metric for him. and the democrats have opportunity. they're not taking it. very interesting to me. we'll see how it sets up, coming up into the election. you guys are great. do me a favor. will you stick around? it turns out i have no other
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friends. no, i want to talk to you about what happened tonight. julian castro was frank with saying and errol was saying he reacted to the news of this sanctuary city revenge plan, let's call it at the town hall. he also had a plan of his own to deal with this at its source, but he took time to say that the cruelty of this administration never seems to end. that's an interesting word. strength, the way the president sells and the way his base sees it or cruelty. and if there are enough people who see it the way as cruelty, is there advantage to be had in that in the next election? right back. ♪
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politics you have campaigns that are about qualitative and quantitative aspects. i want to start with the qualitative one. we have frank bruni, errol louis and laura barone lopez. laura, we were talking about before we went to break, cruelty. to the president's base, it's strength, that harshness plays as strength, being firm, rule of law, left is weak, left is soft. is there space for the argument that you are articulating a little bit in the first segment of compassionate, sweet strength and how we look at these people? what julian castro was saying in large doses tonight in the town hall. there space for that to develop a following? >> i think there is. i mean, we're hearing that from more candidates than just julian. but it's something that he is definitely trying to play up in his response to the president's immigration playbook and response to the president trying to stoke fear among his base.
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so i think we're going see more of that. he was talking a lot about the cruelty. that was kind of the buzzword he was using, as well as talking about the passion that he wants to have in dealing with the situation at the border. he also brought up his background. he is of mexican -- he is mexican-american, of mexican descent. so he talked about his grandmother, which could really help him connect with voters, specifically latinos who were seen are on track to become the biggest nonwhite ethnic group heading into the 2020 election. >> errol, i think the president said his father is from mexico, didn't he? let me ask you something. there is no opposite word that we use from demagogue, right? and part that of is because the negative sells. harsh sells. anger sells. fear sells. where does that come out in terms of this issue of immigration and how democrats can play it to advantage? >> well, look, the reality is there are a lot of people. and we saw this when the child separation policy was first
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unveiled. and you saw it as well with the muslim ban there is a lot of anger out there. there is a lot of passion out there. and it's not just at the border there are a lot of democrats who are really deeply offended by a lot of the policies that this white house has attempted or enacted. so to be in touch with the democratic base, i think you're going to have to be a candidate who shows that you get it, that you reflect it. that you don't just use a word like cruelty, but you show some passion behind it. and i thought in the town hall tonight, that was striking with julian castro. he's got some interesting policy ideas. he's the first to unveil a real immigration platform of the democratic candidates. he is the only latino. he's got a lot going for him on these issues. what i wasn't getting from him, though, was sort of the heat, the passion, the anger, at least the sense that he's able to touch it. even if he doesn't necessarily want to generate much of it himself, there is a lot of that on the ground. and i think he is going to see a lot more of that among the democratic base. >> a fair point.
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to errol's point about where he is going to rank right now, frank, let's turn to the poll numbers. we have two sets to look at. we have who's likely to be in the iowa caucuses and how they rank people, and then we also have new hampshire. so here is iowa likely caucusgoers. three white guys at the top still. why do i say it that way? the party supposedly, and i'm sure you guys hear this as well. the big brains say we're brown and we're young. that's where this party is headed and we're going to get there fist what do the poll numbers think? >> i think we're read soog much into them. if we talk in two months and four months, the poll numbers will look a lot different. if we were talking about this ath mo ago, pete buttigieg would not be in the foreground of the conversation, al the a lot has changed for him in one month, and a lot could change for another candidate in one month. i think it's really, really early. but when we're talking about julian castro, and tonight he is looking for a breakout moment. he was looking for one last
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night. he had a rally in san antonio to sort of counter president's visit there. it didn't really break through the way something similar had for beto o'rourke. julio had something interesting to say. he is using the right words. i think cruelty is the a good one to land on. he didn't say to you i have an animating passion to be president. he didn't tell you why in a field of 18 and to go up you should choose him over anyone else. i think that's something each one of these candidates has to be able to do, to be able to talk to you in a way to say wait a second, maybe that person above all the others, because there is a lot of options here. >> also, it's about who the media is loving in the moment. early on in the polls like this, you see beto. beto who now? now you have to use both of his names. you may have to back to calling him robert because he is stuck in the middle of the pack. laura, let's look at the polls. buttigieg has like this.
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for him to be consistent three in two different polls, again, media love. media love matter, especially in the early polls. what's your take? >> right. i agree with frank. i think in a month we could see harris where buttigieg is at or warren where buttigieg is at. but there is something that he's latched on to. he's made movement for a reason, right. it's because he's young. he seems to be charismatic, and voters are responding to that. they like what he's talking about, although again, he's talking in broad terms, the way beto was as well, the way biden does to a degree. he hasn't really drilled down on policy the way warren or the way harris and booker have. so, again, we'll have to see how long this lasts. in states like nevada and texas where candidates like castro may be able to find a breakout moment in those state, buttigieg may not play as well. >> errol, what are you seeing as
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a differentiator? give it to me quick. >> buttigieg? as a differentiator, he has interesting ideas. he wants to extend the supreme court. he is one of only a handful of executives who are in the race. and so as a guy whose been a mayor of a fairly diversity in some ways, he's kind of got some insight into managerial issues that the senators in the race really can't claim. i think that's going to be one of his distinctions that he is going to be pushing a lot in the near future. >> it's also good that one thing you never know how it's going to play, but it's a nice intangible. not easy to dislike. >> not easy to dislike. that's something that we often don't put enough value on in politics, you know, because that's what people are looking for when they're figuring out how to size you up. what's this person's weakness? how do we get at her? how do we get at him? he is not so easy unless you want the play to stereotypes. all right. thank you so much for being with me tonight. and laura, welcome to the show. all right. stunning and scary, that is how a former director of national
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intelligence describes the attorney general's new claim of fbi spying on the trump campaign. tonight jim clapper tells me what he thought when he heard the president double down on that extraordinary claim, next. this is not a bed... it's a revolution in sleep. the sleep number 360 smart bed, from $999... senses your movement and automatically adjusts on each side to keep you both comfortable. and snoring? how smart is that? smarter sleep. so you can come out swinging, maintain your inner focus, and wake up rested and ready for anything. sleep number is ranked #1 in customer satisfaction with mattresses by j. d. power. save $400 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. only for a limited time.
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and accessoriesphones for your mobile phone. like this device to increase volume on your cell phone. - ( phone ringing ) - get details on this state program visit right now or call during business hours. the attorney general going all in on spying, certainly sits well with his boss. but how's it going square with the men and women still actively trying to stop russian interference who work for him? former director of national intelligence james clapper is worried about that and brings invaluable experience to this conversation. director, thank you for joining me. >> thanks, chris.
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>> first, out of the box, are you surprised by what ag barr said this week? >> yes, chris, and i assume you're referring to his spying remark. >> yes, to start with. but just in general, do his words and his stated intentions surprise you, given what he did the last time he was ag? >> well, i can't -- i don't remember much about when he actually served as ag. what i was contrasting his commentary at the testimony versus his confirmation hearing. >> right. >> which i watched a good part of, and frankly, was impressed. you know, he has done this before. i struck me when i watched the confirmation hearing that he wasn't in this for some further ambition or using this as a stepping stone opportunity, but
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just to serve. and i figured that he would be more concerned, focused on the rule of law and perhaps his legacy. >> especially when that's his stated intention with how he is releasing the mueller report. and if you're going to be the by the book guy, why would you start any working group or investigation into something your ig is looking at the same time? that's certainly not by the book. but it seems to be the spying that gets everybody. why? >> well, it does. certainly for someone like me, i've always had an aversion to that term. i always cringed any time i was referred to as the head spy. the word "spy" has a lot of negative baggage with it, negative connotations. it smacks of illegality without oversight or supervision. and what bothers me about this first i thought he's kind of indicting his own people in the department of justice and the fbi, which of course is a part
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of the department of justice. and gratuitously so. there is already an ongoing investigation by the inspector general who known as independent and a critic. and so it would have been to me a lot more appropriate had he simply said i'm going to await the outcome of the investigation that was started before i became attorney general. moreover, you know, it isn't like he just got off the turnip truck yesterday. he has already been the attorney general. so he doesn't wander in the headquarters of the department of justice say gee, what's this outfit do? he already knew that. so if this is a concern of his, that's something he could have asked about the first day or the first week and gotten a preliminary or a briefing from the inspector general about what his preliminary findings were, rather than i thought kind of throwing actually the entire
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intelligence community under the bus. the other point i would make, chris is all of this causes us to lose sight of what i think is the primary concern, and that's what started all this was the russian meddling. and so what we were seeing at the time contemporaneously, in addition to gaining more and more insight as time went on through the summer and fall of 2016 about the magnitude of what the russians were doing to interfere in our political process is the interactions, the numerous meetings from members of the trump camp with russians. russia is our arch adversary. they are bent on undermining us. and we've lost sight of that with all this focus on spying on the campaign, which wasn't the case at all. this suggested to me or reminded me of the president's absurd
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allegation about the obama administration surveilling trump tower. >> well, this fuels it, by the way. >> oh, exactly. >> one of my biggest points of feedback i've gotten here and on my sirius xm radio radio show, i told you they spied on us. the president was right. they wiretapped him, but everybody laughed. now it is true, see? barr just said it. is opening up the fisa application and showing why they looked at carter page and what it was based on and why they allowed the follow-ups, what do you think about the sanitizing light of transparency there? >> well, you know, as an intel guy, i was not comfortable, i'll put that it way, with the even releasing the redacted version of the fisa authorization request for the surveillance of carter page. and by the way, that was like the fourth one for carter page. he was known to the fbi, was on
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their radar scope since i think about 2013, preceding the campaign. so i'd personally didn't see anything improper about the fisa authorization given its redactions. i certainly didn't know about it contemporaneously, nor should i have. and the other point i would make is the fisa court has some very smart, capable experienced judges and has a superb staff. so the notion that somehow the fbi was putting one over the fisa court is kind of ridiculous based on my experience and knowledge of how the fisa court operates. >> jim, let's leave it there. always appreciate having you, director. your insight is invaluable. >> thanks, chris. thanks for having me. >> all right. be well. so republicans are waging a new fight. this time it's abortion. and it is not going on in the supreme court. it's about taking to the states.
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and this is not the standard debate. i believe what we're seeing happening now in different parts of the country is almost reminiscent of jim crow laws. what does that mean? we're going to test it in the great debate, next. pardon the interruption but this is big! now at t-mobile buy any samsung galaxy s10 and get a galaxy s10e free! but i'm more than a number. when i'm not teaching, i'm taking steep grades and tight corners. my essilor lenses offer more than vision correction with three innovative technologies for my ultimate in vision clarity and protection
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roe v. wade is the law of the land. people don't like that in this country. it is controversial, especially in red states. and now we see those states moving to enact controversial laws. ohio's governor today signed what they call a heartbeat bill. signs into law makes law a rule that essentially bans an abortion after a heartbeat is
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detected, much earlier than the viability standard that is established by roe v. wade as the law of the land. it could be as early as six weeks. it's before many women know they're even pregnant. georgia's governor is expected to sign a similar bill. texas? lawmakers considered making abortion punishable by death. should that power belong to the states? it's the start of a great debate. jennifer granholm and nigel ennis. i will stipulate at the beginning i don't believe this is about states thinking these laws are going to stick. it's about pushing the envelope and seeing what happens and what they can agitate at the supreme court level. but as you heard, gov, i liken these to jim crow laws, because i saw that as the same pernicious intent. let's codify it. let's solidify it at the local level so at least we're starting with a base, and then we'll try our luck, see how long we can keep it this way. how do you see it? >> yeah, no, i think you're totally right in terms of the purpose of these. they know that these laws are
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unconstitutional, and they've been struck down up to this point. but now they've got kavanaugh. if you want to know what the fight about kavanaugh was all about, this is it. they want a case, the right case to get to the supreme court which would overturn roe v. wade. let me just say one of the states under the microscope on this is georgia. and there was a senator in georgia who said we will reclaim our rights when we reclaim your seat, a woman, senator jen jordan. that is it. if you saw a lot of women getting mad in 2018. this goes to the supreme court, this is happening in these states. all of those pink hats are coming out again. and there is very little that makes women more angry than male politicians coming in to
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separate them from the decisions and the very difficult decisions they have with their doctors. this is going to be a political fire storm. >> niger, you were running this a little bit with the states that are codifying roe v. wade, codifying infanticide. they're not doing anything that's not the law of the land now. roe v. wade is only infanticide if you want to call it that and put that label on it. this is not new moves. is that hand in glove with this effort? >> i think that the extremes on both ends are defining the debate on this question when most of the american people are somewhere in the middle. you know -- >> how are you in the middle about whether or not someone's got a right to choose? >> it's late term abortions, for example. >> who did late term abortions, what state made late term abortions okay? >> the state of virginia rejected a law. but you had a legislator, julie
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chan, that was pushing a piece of legislation. she was confronted by one of her colleagues in the house of delegates and asked, would a woman who was dilating and about to give birth be allowed to have an abortion? julie chan -- >> stop this b.s. right now. that is b.s. >> the state didn't adopt it. jennifer, go ahead. >> that is not what is happening. what is happening in the states is that who feel threatened is that they are trying to codify roe v. wade. in new york, as andrew cuomo was trying to repeal an outdated criminal law that criminalized abortion, what these states are doing, what they're doing is they see what's happening in the southern states and they are attempting to codify and to put into state law that roe v. wade is the law of the land. that will only last as long as the supreme court continues to uphold it of course. that's what's happening is that people -- this is a relationship
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between a woman and her doctor, and every pregnancy is different. and i -- it is -- 70% of americans believe that roe v. wade should stay intact and do not want to see politicians becoming physicians and stepping in between a woman with a very difficult decision, a medical decision, and by the way, let's be clear about this, the united states has the worst maternal mortality rates of any of the developed countries. and a state like georgia is the worst state in the country for women surviving pregnancy. so this is a health care issue. and let's not let politicians substitute their judgment for that of a physician. >> look, i think that conservatives, pro-life advocates, which is about 50% of the country, i mean, pro-life advocates, and i consider myself a pro-life advocate as well have gained tremendous traction in the country in terms of popular
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opinion on this question. in the early '90s about a third of americans considered themselves pro-life and 56% considered themselves pro-choice, today it's split almost down the middle, 50/50. i think conservatives and pro-life advocates are much, much stronger, political, tactical and moral grounds to attack planned parenthood for getting federal funds which comes out of the pockets of those who are pro-life or pro-choice. >> let's be clear, planned parenthood does not use any federal funds for abortions. just do not spread these lies. >> they just move around the money, jennifer. >> planned parenthood does not give federal -- they do not spend one dime in -- >> getting funds -- >> niger, they could. you have no proof they do. when you spread it, it's bull shit. don't spread bs if you can't prove it. that's the suggestion. let her finish the point. go ahead. >> and that is the point, the hyde amendment prevents it, says
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it's illegal for planned parenthood to do that. you can't just go out there and make claims that are not true. women's lives are at stake. and this is why the people of america, you can say what you want about where people are pro-life, anti- -- or pro-life, really, that's such a ridiculous thing. this is about being pro-birth. if it were really about pro-life you guys would be funding the things that help children once they are born instead of cutting things like food assistance to people who have young children, et cetera. but the bottom line is, this is a health issue. this is not a political issue. let the physicians make the decision and we'll see what happens at roe v. wade and we're going to see an electoral backlash if something happens. >> i've got to jump. both of you very much, thanks for watching with us, the news continues on cnn. advice for what you need today and tomorrow. because when you're with fidelity,
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good evening. a very busy hour ahead, whether it's the arrest of wikileaks's julian assange or the story we begin with tonight, the attorney general of the united states and exactly who he is and is not working for. is he an impartial lawman or trying to curry favor with president trump? the question is being asked tonight because of barr's most recent senate testimony and the way he characterized aspects of the fbi's russia counterintelligence investigation, specifically this. >> we want to make sure that during -- i think spying on a political campaign is a big deal. it's a big deal. >> so you're not -- you're not suggesting, though, that spying occurred?

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